well being the good catholic, going to a catholic school where the nuns took care of business, and i have the knuckles to prove it, as well as other areas they were very strict back in the very early 60's and the method to their madness was quite simple, the child would never tell their parents, as most good irish catholic parents would say the nun was right, and they would dole out a good one for you too, so you never told mom and dad the nuns whacked you around a bit today, i seemed to have turned out pretty good, and now a retired former law enforcement officer

Conscription is not an 'honor'.  It's a sentence for which there was no crime.

Like anything, it is what it is perceived to be. I see serving as an honor. You do not. How one enters the service is not important. What one does once there is....that's how I see it. You're entitled to your view, however.

Conscription removes choice....Press gangs were no different.

Slavery is no different.

Serving is an honour, yes...but forced servitude is just a quaint term for slavery.

Heck...entering a prison can be done in two ways, too....as an inmate or as a guard.

yes guns are illegal here in the uk but so are drugs, doesnt stop ppl getting hold of them. i say feral coz they are like feral animals roaming the streets looking for others to prey on. in my area gun shots are not un-common but we all ignore it coz we assume its drug dealers sorting each other out. the fact these drug dealers are teens is shocking but they earn far more money than doing a normal job. i brought one of my long-term patients home for the day as a treat and we got off the bus at 2.30 in the afternoon, a car pulled up and another behind it - 2 young black men jumped out of the 2nd car and shot the others thru the window. i said to my poor patient "oh look, another shooting" and carried on walking. she was totally freaked but as i say here its not unusual. i dont have the answers but i do worry about the future, i dont have kids but my friends do and i share their concerns about what prospects they will have.

there is much poverty and we need to deal with that i suppose but if a young person can earn more in a day dealing drugs than working a month in a normal job what chance is there?

There are times when a society's needs are met with volunteers, and others when conscription/lottery are needed.

If all wish to benefit from the society's privileges, then all should be equally required to partake in the responsibilities...At any rate, conscription doesn't necessarily mean service in the army...could mean public service of one type or another.

Some will feel 'put upon', others will make it an opportunity. The important part (to me) is that if one wants the benefits, then partake of the responsibilities. Some have free choice to do so, but if the society's needs (deemed valid by a majority) aren't being met, then it should become obligatory for all.

Just my 2 cents...and I'd fight to the death to defend your right to your 2 cents, Jafo. Truly.

Doc...it was the freak of birth date determining whether I'd step on a gook's mine or not.  As it turned out the conscription system had a time/date cutoff...so I was for the castration next year...but then the Govt got its balls kicked and I was saved compulsory execution.

Never....I repeat NEVER confuse forced military avtion with noble idealogy of 'saving our world/culture/capitalism' for a better life.

It is not.

I only have one life to give...and it WILL BE AT MY CHOOSING.

Not yours, not some other country's...

Not some BULLSHIT save the land rights for gay whales because they have the oil.

I decide.

I will die before I am forced by any outside source to do otherwise.

Get it clear....I lived it.  I lived the draft.  I lived my friends dying...even 40 years later...from the shit that was Vietnam.  My father 'survived' WW2...my uncle 'survived' Changi [look it up - it will be censored via Google though].  I don't give a flying fuck about nobility and patriotism....once I am dead I am a rotting carcase of shit returning to the soil.....all else is socialogical feely-touchy-good shite.

You die and you arer dead.

End of.

Never confuse passion with patriotism.

I am passionate about this site....one reason being it transends bullshit social boundaries.

Right on Jafo!

Geez I have a load of typos in that.

I guess one saving grace is i know when I spell it wrong...

What we are talking about here is a general breakdown in society, ala "A Clockwork Orange". Well I don't think it's that bad yet but that's what it sounds like. As far as the "violent musicians", well I don't believe in censorship and it's more or less a fact that blaming artists for the violence of kids is a bunch of crap.

You know back in the day teachers, even in the public school I went to, were allowed to whack the kids around. I can tell you that it didn't make a damn bit of difference. Violent, bad kids were and are are violent bad kids period. By the time they are in middle school it's too damn late. The thing that made the difference was growing up in a family that had a sense of good moral values that were imparted to the children.

So we just go on making excuses for parents that don't give a shit about their kids.

Yeah Baby! Now you're talking my language!

You speak NSDAP?

Oh My God No Doc! I'm meaning the opposite of that! I quoted WebGizmos but if he really means to sterilize people or not I can't say. I'm guessing he's expressing his frustration at careless baby making machines who don't accept the ramifications of their careless sexual practices.

I'm surely not a Nazi! I love ya Doc but look me straight in the eye and call me a Nazi and I'll show you a Red White and Blue  Blooded American Midwesterner! WE straight on that?

You favor sterilizing people who don't live up to your standards about how to raise children (which may or may not be "good" standards) and you define that as.....?

I believe that if one has to be licensed to drive a car, certainly the same applies to having and raising children.

That's a far cry from sterilizing people who didn't do whoever's standard of a good enough job raising them (children).

You tell me what people who think they have the corner on correct thinking, correct standards and correct actions and are willing to sterilize others who don't agree are.

I know what the bible says about disciplining a child. "Spare the rod and spoil the child.", My version of that is "spare the rod and spoil the little bratt!   I don't think a parent has the right to beat their children, but well done discipline goes a long way!